tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.comments2020-02-19T00:27:13.196-07:00Where Simplicity LeadsMelanie Williamshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06034189354730902887noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-42348391690690368272014-12-04T10:16:06.803-07:002014-12-04T10:16:06.803-07:00I read the book in the late 80's. I don'...I read the book in the late 80's. I don't know if I got through it completely because, as you say, it was rather painful.<br /><br />I remember thinking that he sounded like he was full of crap in the later chapters but he did teach me a lot of new information about how the mind works in the early chapters.<br /><br />I just came across the book on a dusty old book shelf when the power went out and I read the first two chapters for kicks. Today, knowing what I know now, it is more obvious that he was full of crap right in the beginning. It is all a straw man. I was shocked to revisit his details and find the ridiculous assumption that muscle memory and epiphany are proof that consciousness has no role on basic functions; as if consciousness was not heavily involved in creating the muscle memory or laying out the original intellectual tasks that eventually came to the epiphany.<br /><br />It all went downhill from there.Pliskohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02108138291767682350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-38414554573860294092013-04-07T11:07:28.573-06:002013-04-07T11:07:28.573-06:00Great article! I am also longing for a life like t...Great article! I am also longing for a life like that, and my deepest desire is to find like minded people to build a moneyless village. <br /><br />One thing though. You say that 'money serves a genuine purpose--facilitating transactions that occur at a distance', because it is more difficult to trust people on a distance. I disagree. Just look at Couchsurfing for instance. A global network of people sharing their couches with total strangers. Of course, there's a trust building tool built into the system online. And that is my point. With today's technology we can have a global moneyless gift economy without a problem. And the more people are 'in on it', the more total trust we will get. <br /><br />Moreover, managing and sharing natural resources on a global scale, not to speak of building global transportation networks, etc. can be dealt with much more efficient without money than with. The 'money economy' is looking at nature and the inherent cost and strain as 'externals'. They are not counted in as actual 'cost' towards any product. A moneyless economy that deals directly with the resources, nature and people involved will take all strain on the biosphere into account. <br /><br />It is very good that more and more moneyless villages pop up around the world. But we must also start to look at the possibility of a global moneyless economy, something we could call a resource based economy, as well. Hopefully the moneyless mindset on the grassroots will also 'trickle up' and start to take effect on higher levels. :) <br /><br />http://www.theresourcebasedeconomy.com/Harald Sandøhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15425057758705584712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-37237254682536998782012-10-22T10:11:58.597-06:002012-10-22T10:11:58.597-06:00Interesting. My husband mentors a young man in pri...Interesting. My husband mentors a young man in prison who asked him to read and discuss this book with him. The young man was raised (if you could call it that) by a woman who neither nurtured nor fed him. He stole food in order to survive which eventually landed him in jail. He was searching for hope that despite his past, he may make something of himself. It seems that opportunity is presenting itself as several people consider him worth mentoring. But I was unable to glean from the book if Gladwell thought redemption from a poor past possible. TaniRaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11133279867305266429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-20833161220049001722012-10-22T10:03:23.028-06:002012-10-22T10:03:23.028-06:00Very thoughtful and a paradigm shift for me. Your ...Very thoughtful and a paradigm shift for me. Your ideas brought to mind what I considered the tragedy of the book, The Blue Zones. The authors studied the 7 longest lived peoples of the planet. They sought what habits attitudes and foods these people had in common that led to longevity. Unfortunately they also found that in some places these influences would end with the current generation as America's cultural influences were creeping in. Fast food restaurant chains opened selling the people convenience and robbing them of their heritage of a long, healthy life. TaniRaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11133279867305266429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-27546016964299133472012-04-25T06:35:47.406-06:002012-04-25T06:35:47.406-06:00What's that old saying by John Lennon??? "...What's that old saying by John Lennon??? "Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans". This sounds like a classic example and interesting picture of that. <br /><br />I'll look forward to more of your sharing.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191204999210894064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-27141230747243617502011-11-16T05:47:27.549-07:002011-11-16T05:47:27.549-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191204999210894064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-80261080469591049202011-10-10T09:13:56.492-06:002011-10-10T09:13:56.492-06:00Forgot to mention Cheryl's shop is made of str...Forgot to mention Cheryl's shop is made of strawbales.lostinthewoodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06638690912925773954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-31401012620042179922011-10-09T08:30:32.429-06:002011-10-09T08:30:32.429-06:00We've tried to live outside the money economy,...We've tried to live outside the money economy, preferring instead to build our own place out of native materials, growing much of our food, not being connected to the grid, but having one small pv panel at the beginning and a light over the kitchen sink (with a hand pumped well for our water) and another light over our bed for reading...that was 1984...over time we added more pv panels, more lights, a 12 volt refrigerator (the vented pantry worked fine for the most part). In 94 we built a studio so Cheryl could work here, on our land. She's a wholistic therapist. I have a woodshop here, as well. Commuting isn't something we wish to include in our lives. We live in a small state forest which provides us with 4 legged, winged, and crawling friends...the waters the finned. We give them the space they need and we ask the same of them. The two leggeds interlope at times noisily through the woods not too distant...especially during the deer hunting season. When I first came here I seldom saw (or heard) the sounds of humans. People have acquired more toys and noise over the years.<br /><br />I appreciate your words and enjoy whenever you post a new writing of thoughts. Very provoking for me. I'm glad you're out there in the etherworld for all to read.lostinthewoodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06638690912925773954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-13677951514154058112011-03-12T09:56:34.574-07:002011-03-12T09:56:34.574-07:00Melanie,
I am glad you are back and providing you...Melanie,<br /><br />I am glad you are back and providing your perspective on the wide array of topics this blog explores. I find your views refreshing and consider your writing to be some of the more intelligent I have come across on the internet, or anywhere else for that matter.<br /><br />I share your view on money to a large degree and have never had the drive to make money as a reward either. For me, the much greater challenge is fighting the more pragmatic side of my personality, which seems to need the security that money so easily brings in our society.<br /><br />I, too, hope to "live my convictions", which have morphed into something not unlike your own in recent years.<br /><br />Thank you for your candor and inspiration.<br /><br />DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-89111440588456625612010-12-29T08:26:01.164-07:002010-12-29T08:26:01.164-07:00Thanks for all your posts over the years. I look f...Thanks for all your posts over the years. I look forward to reading your new one.Terryhttp://www.enviromon.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-49080945496173751652010-08-30T20:27:31.017-06:002010-08-30T20:27:31.017-06:00Well, language gets in the way here. I don't ...Well, language gets in the way here. I don't think moving towards integration can be called "progress", nor is it a linear process. Like you, I see evolution as merely adaptation to a changing environment--and a lateral process. But after we undergo countless discrete changes in response to our changing environment we become so qualitatively different that you could say we've entered a new phase or become a new human. That doesn't mean we've moved up a notch on the progress ladder. Just that we and our environment both have changed substantially. The forests receded and the savannah expanded; we came down from the trees and freed our hands and became toolmakers. Our brains grew, the wiring changed. It's not progress, just something different.<br /><br />But with that said, I do tend to agree with Gebser and Wilber that the next phase will be integration. I've read Wilber extensively and agree that he does characterize it as progress. Gebser I've not read as closely, so I'm not sure but I didn't really get that impression. I see integration as a lateral phenomenon. We're not adding anything. We're simply engaging more of what is already there. In this current phase we rely more on the frontal lobes and neocortex when interacting with the world--an integral phase will simply have us *consciously* learning to also tap into those earlier brain structures which underly the cortex. We will be more fully expressing what's already there--and I believe it will be a synergistic phenomenon. Archaic, magical, mythical and mental haven't *consciously* met yet in us. We can't perceive what might be possible when that happens. I'm unwilling to say *this is all there is*, especially when I'm beginning to live something different.<br /><br />BTW, I had a pleasant surprise at the post office today. Thank you! I've been so excited that it's here that I can't settle down to actually read it (and somehow in my exuberance I managed to spill coffee on it). :)Melanie Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034189354730902887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-11528668207994554522010-08-30T18:50:21.151-06:002010-08-30T18:50:21.151-06:00Darwin avoided the use of the word 'evolution&...Darwin avoided the use of the word 'evolution' because it had come to imply some kind of 'upward progress', which he rejected. <br /><br />It still has that connotation today (its etymological denotation is simply 'unrolling') and I believe that this idea of 'progress' of humanity over time is delusional, and, especially in the ideologies of people like Gebser and Wilber, dangerous. It plays into our longing for salvation, redemption, an easy way out, and into the entrenched Christian idea that hard work and perseverance can achieve almost anything. <br /><br />But an objective study of history reveals that humans, like all species, evolve to adapt to changing conditions, but do not progress. That is what A Short History of Progress (Wright) and Straw Dogs (Gray) taught me, or, rather, reminded me -- since it was this distinction that made the late Stephen Jay Gould so unpopular in the eyes of religious and spiritual groups, including fellow scientists who were/are technophiles and believers in the religion of progress. <br /><br />We have not, are not, and cannot, in my view, progress. It is not in our or in any other creature's nature. We have, are and will continue to evolve, but that evolution is around, not up. If we work and study hard, there may well be a new paradigm in our future, but it will not be 'integration'. It will, I think, be acceptance.Dave Pollardhttp://howtosavetheworld.ca/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-22069253243470404162010-07-09T15:33:20.966-06:002010-07-09T15:33:20.966-06:00Reading your post about grubs remended me of a cro...Reading your post about grubs remended me of a crow that stayed with us when I was a young boy. The Crow stayed around our house and didn't seem to like any of us, much, except for my mother. While she gardened, he would wait for her to uncover grubs and obliged my mother by removing them from the garden. He would sit on her shoulder while she read in the garden, as well, a past time she is fond of to this day (without the crow).<br /><br />Taming, domestication...not sure. I beleive it is willful cooperation. The crow knew that my mother was harmless and benevolent whereas myself and my brothers were more interested in getting our hands on him for closer inspection. Animals operate in constant survival mode. It's all they know. Most people don't know what that is like. Combat is the most comparable thing to the natural behavior of most animals. If you were to swing a broom at that robin you would have no hope of landing a blow. He would still, most likely, come around when you begin to turn earth. I don't think you pose a significant risk to his overall safety.<br /><br />Interacting with nature is the reward for spending time outdoors. If you have ever been still in the woods in the evening or morning and had an encounter with deer, there is something visceral about the experience that reminds us that once we were more.Del Stantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10898134040537771854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-62840666935766638432010-06-09T08:38:19.844-06:002010-06-09T08:38:19.844-06:00Thom, you hit the nail on the head describing the ...Thom, you hit the nail on the head describing the moral dilemma here. But I think there’s more that needs to be teased out of this.<br /><br />I had the same thought as you—that I shouldn’t make feeding the robins a habit, so that I don’t inadvertently tame them to a degree that puts them at risk. But there’s something that bugs me about that sort of thinking. I think it presupposes that we’re intellectually superior to other animals and always know what’s best for them. In the animal kingdom humans aren’t superior to any other creatures and it’s arrogant for us to think we know what’s best for everyone else. We’re demeaning the birds when we think we have to look out for their own good. They’re intelligent creatures and can determine their own needs and do their own cost/benefit analyses.<br /><br />In this case the male robin knows what he wants and he’s determined to get it. Yesterday I was out in my front yard trimming some grass with clippers and he came up and got me. He kept chattering on the power line above me and when that didn’t work he hopped down on the ground in front of me and flapped his wings and made quite a scene until I finally listened. I dropped the clippers, went and got the shovel and went to the backyard to dig some grubs. He’s domesticating me, taking my wildness away—training me to do his bidding. I’ve definitely met my match here.<br /><br />I’ve noticed him watching me for weeks. He’s been checking me out. He’s seen the uncanny relationships I have with some of the feral cats in the neighborhood, how they’ll come and sit next to me with no fear (although I can’t touch them). He knows I’m benevolent and respectful. Am I projecting all of this on him? Again, there would be something awfully presumptuous in assuming he couldn’t be making these sorts of assessments.<br /><br />Another thing is, in my experience, that robins love to engage with humans. There are many birds that like to live among humans, but the robin is the one who really enjoys not merely living among us, but also engaging with us. In fact, my very earliest experience with birds was with a “tame” robin who lived in our yard when I was three years old.<br /><br />We form relationships by doing something nice for each other. How else can two living things truly meet? If I were to take a paternalistic stance with these other creatures and presume to know what’s best for them, then how could we ever meet? By telling them that association with us humans was a bad thing, and then walking away, I’d be eliminating one way that healing can occur on this planet. Humans desperately need to reintegrate into our respective ecosystems. I realize that engaging with other species tends to be a very slippery slope for us humans--for some reason we go from tossing grubs at birds to having chimpanzees in our beds in a heartbeat--but I don’t think that’s a reason to seal ourselves off from these relationships. We just need to know how to honor boundaries and not cross a line.Melanie Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034189354730902887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-3206807003870542832010-06-07T13:25:49.861-06:002010-06-07T13:25:49.861-06:00Good question. I believe it would be domestication...Good question. I believe it would be domestication, in that you are encouraging the robins to give up some of their wild tendencies while you are giving up nothing. Yes, they benefit too, but I think they may lose more in the arrangement than you.<br /><br />You said yourself you were more than happy to kill the grubs. You would have gotten what you needed (dead grubs) regardless of whether the robins showed up or not. That the robins DID show up only helped salve your conscience. <br /><br />The robins, on the other hand, are in danger of losing some of their natural (and justified) fear of humans. YOU might be kind and benevolent, but if they start learning that humans will feed them without harming them they might fall prey to some of the less enlightened of our species. <br /><br />One time I doubt is going to do any harm. But if you start feeding them grubs every day they may come to depend on you and may lose their ability to fend for themselves when you run out of grubs or stop feeding them.<br /><br />But does entering into a relationship make fellow creatures less wild? Not necessarily so. We see numerous cases in nature where two different species cooperate for mutual benefit. Are wild horses that stand end to end to swat flies from each others' faces domesticating each other? Perhaps, but so long as they are creating a natural advantage for one another without necessarily creating a disadvantage in the process, I don't see how it's a bad thing.<br /><br />If you and robins can cooperate without placing the robins at risk of becoming dependent on you or losing their fear of other humans, then why not cooperate? Domestication becomes a liability when one side becomes dependent on the other, such as cows or sheep who have lost their ability to cope for themselves in many instances.<br /><br />I think I'm basically calling mutual cooperation a probable good, while calling domestication--the act of bending another species to serve your needs in a way that makes the other species dependent on you--a probable negative.Thomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09747990389296523185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-3767318286028332912010-06-02T07:18:13.563-06:002010-06-02T07:18:13.563-06:00Hey Eric, that's a great idea and another one ...Hey Eric, that's a great idea and another one of those *duh!* moments for me. I've been trying to get around to building a cold frame/hot bed, but even if I still don't get around to that this year, it would be easy to rig something up on top of the compost bin for the peppers next spring. (Would 1 x 2's and 6-mil plastic be good enough or will it need glass and insulated sides?)Melanie Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034189354730902887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-2996543253638740872010-06-01T06:19:29.669-06:002010-06-01T06:19:29.669-06:00Heat source for starting pepper seedlings- A new 4...Heat source for starting pepper seedlings- A new 4x4x4 foot compost pile with a cold frame on top.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922443670070426795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-69160410170503438862010-05-25T08:16:30.136-06:002010-05-25T08:16:30.136-06:00Thom, having four shovels is pure genius. Then wh...Thom, having four shovels is pure genius. Then when your friends show up you can put them to work. (Maybe you should get a few more.) :-)<br /><br />I actually LOVE my toys too. I'm secretly glad I'll *have* to buy more power tools in order to build a cabin, because then I'll get to keep them afterwards and play with them whenever I want. Part of my plan for self-reliance is to have a furniture-making side business (in addition to selling excess garden produce and herbal products, and doing some freelance writing). I *could* get by with hand tools--and there would be something very satisfying about that--but there's also something very satisfying about running a piece of wood through an electrically-powered planer or joiner, or routing an intricate molding in an afternoon.Melanie Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034189354730902887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-27335680941479461372010-05-24T14:58:17.421-06:002010-05-24T14:58:17.421-06:00Awww.... but I LOVE my toys! Seriously, though, I ...Awww.... but I LOVE my toys! Seriously, though, I understand what you mean. I own four shovels. Do I need all of those? Probably not, though there are times when I'm very glad I have at least some of them.<br /><br />And yes, we do get into the mindset that self-reliance means getting more things. In some ways that is true, but I agree with you that it's more about skills than tools. Gaining the skills helps you better identify what tools are really needed.Thomhttp://www.simpleselfreliance.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-68459693306688563852010-05-18T13:02:03.463-06:002010-05-18T13:02:03.463-06:00The desert just isn't me. I'm a water baby...The desert just isn't me. I'm a water baby. I love the rain, I love rivers, lakes, springs, streams and more. I love the green trees and all the abundance of wetter regions. I lived in the desert and truly felt like a fish out of water despite the desert's rugged beauty.<br /><br />Now, having said that, I TOTALLY agree with you about living more in tune with nature and the primal satisfaction that would bring. Divorcing ourselves from the natural cycles and circles of life leaves us deprived in ways I can't begin to express. Knowing, understanding and living within the natural cycles of our area would be quite fulfilling and challenging in my opinion. I love the idea!Jennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00990896713274666504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-34186218224580709462010-05-16T08:28:14.220-06:002010-05-16T08:28:14.220-06:00Way to depressing to deal with. I propose that wha...Way to depressing to deal with. I propose that whatever solution we come up with does not deny the voracity of the human spirit, but allows a way for its proper reflection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-11290807376263262142010-04-08T16:20:26.044-06:002010-04-08T16:20:26.044-06:00Thank you for posting this Bruce. I read it when ...Thank you for posting this Bruce. I read it when you posted it on homestead and it spoke right to my heart. I even sent the Ivan Illich quote on to my mom, because it conveyed what I had been feebly trying to express to her for weeks.Melanie Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034189354730902887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-88279208281449121472010-04-08T00:47:16.101-06:002010-04-08T00:47:16.101-06:00I wrote this while we were in Seattle doing hospic...I wrote this while we were in Seattle doing hospice with my sister who died of ovarian cancer in March of 2003, the day before I, myself, peed pure blood...rushing back here, a 3 day journey...to find that I had bladder cancer.<br />***<br />The Present is a Foreign Country<br /><br />With all that we've been experiencing this year, collectively and individually, I have some thoughts I'd like to communicate.<br /><br />A Hopi Elder says about these times:<br /><br />"You have been telling the people it is the eleventh hour, now you must go back and tell the people, this is the hour, and there are things to be considered. Where are you going? What are you doing? Are you in right relation? Where is your water? Do you know your garden? It is time to speak your truth. There is a river flowing now, very fast. It is so great and swift, there are those who will be afraid. They will hold on to the shore, and they will suffer greatly. The elders say, 'Push off of the shore into the middle of the river, keep your eyes open and your head above water.' And I say, 'See who is in there with you, and celebrate! For at this time in history your are to take nothing personally, least of all yourselves. For the moment that you do, your spiritual journey has come to a halt. Gather yourselves, banish the word struggle from your attitude and your vocabulary. All that you do must be done in a sacred manner and in celebration. We are the ones we've been waiting for.' "<br /><br />Ivan Illich died on December 2nd, in Bremen, Germany.<br />In the last 20 years of his life, he suffered increasingly from a persistent growth on the side of his face, which he never treated, nor had diagnosed. In what was his most provocative and perhaps final comment on the "pursuit of health", Illich wrote: "Yes, we suffer pain, we become ill, we die. But we also hope, laugh, celebrate; we know the joy of caring for one another; often we are healed and we recover by many means. We do not have to pursue the flattening-out of human experience. I invite all to shift their gaze, their thoughts, from worrying about 'health care' to cultivating the art of living. And, today with equal importance, the art of suffering, the art of dying."<br /><br />Paper covers rock, rock breaks scissors, scissors cut paper...but fear destroys magic...that has been the celebrated cause of "Civilisation"...parents beating the magic from the child...religious governments and governmental religions instilling fear to cloud the reality that we glimpse periodically when we are quiet by a river in the woods, or celebrating life amongst the dearest of our friends...lostinthewoodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06638690912925773954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-59879852680180463972010-04-07T23:08:45.288-06:002010-04-07T23:08:45.288-06:00Your thoughts echo my own.Your thoughts echo my own.lostinthewoodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06638690912925773954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7280576398615172460.post-62167956906954234002010-04-04T04:02:14.883-06:002010-04-04T04:02:14.883-06:00All things in moderation. Progress can be both a b...All things in moderation. Progress can be both a blessing and a curse, depending on how it's pursued. I don't know if you remember Barry Goldwater's famous saying, "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice." Extremism is the enemy of liberty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com